Editor’s Note: What follows is a preliminary transcript of the Newsmaker podcast interview with Professor Mike Tan of the University of the Philippines

Leo Magno: Hello, my name is Leo Magno and I'm the Executive Editor of INQUIRER.net. And with us here today is Professor Mike Tan, an anthropology professor of the University of the Philippines in Diliman.

Mike, we are so glad to have you here. I would like to discuss with you a few things about fraternities and fraternity-related violence.

Mike Tan: Uh hmm.

Leo Magno: We've had Cris Mendez in the past, Marlon Villanueva, Dennis Venturina, and Nino Calinao.

Mike Tan: Alex Icasiano.

Leo Magno: ...yes, Alex Icasiano, Nino Calinao.

Mike Tan: Okay.

Leo Magno: Who's next? What's happening here?

Mike Tan: Uh hmm.

Leo Magno: But we'll start from the top. What drives freshmen, college students to enter fraternities or organizations once they step in college?

Mike Tan: Well, the need for affiliation with any organization, that's always there. But I think it has become even stronger because UP no longer has a block system. Dati kasi, freshmen were assigned blocks. We don't have that anymore.

Leo Magno Okay.

Mike Tan: And so, the freshman, lalo pa, if they come in from rural areas or from outside Metro Manila or from a public school, they tend to feel lost. They need to affiliate. The fraternities now offer something in addition to all that. There's the male camaraderie, the bonding. For people going to law school, it's also a way of connecting to powerful brods.

Leo Magno: Okay. What is the difference between an organization and a fraternity, Mike? And what are the factors which students--kasi I've heard it said before na, “Hey, we're not an organization, we are a fraternity.” What's the difference? And what are the factors students look for when they join such a social aggrupation?

Mike Tan: Uh hmm. I think frats appeal in the sense that they offer something almost secretive. It's like joining the Katipunan [a Philippine revolutionary organization at the forefront of the struggle for independence against Spain—ed]. One might even say the political underground before. Then, we also have the vacuum because there's no more political underground right now as far as I know. But the frats offer that – there are rituals, there’s this secrecy. The administration itself admits that we don't really know who are the members of frats because the frats don't give full lists of members.

Leo Magno: Especially the freshmen.

Mike Tan: Especially for the freshman.

Leo Magno: Because that's not allowed, if I'm not mistaken.

Mike Tan: It depends. There are registered fraternities.

Leo Magno: Okay.

Mike Tan: We never get complete lists. So, it’s been a problem as well.

Leo Magno: Okay. But you mentioned something about the rituals and the secrecy and all. Does violence have to play a part in joining such a group? Does it always have to – does hazing have to be a part of it?

Mike Tan: It shouldn’t be, no? Even – in fact, we've been discussing this in the university that even for non-frats and non-sororities, there's concern that there's hazing, but it seems that many organizations think it should be part of that passage, you know, becoming a member you have to go through the hazing. Now with the frats, it's something else. Dagdag pa dito kasi [In addition to this], it's a frat. It's a male brod thing. And so into it I don't know if we want to call it our warrior culture that you need to prove that you are man enough to become a frat member.

Leo Magno: The machismo factor.

Mike Tan: Right. The machismo factor is stronger and therefore the hazing quite often becomes more rigorous if not violent.

Leo Magno: Okay. But in this day and age how relevant are fraternities in universities? Because there was an administrative order issued by UP President Emerlinda Roman and she's seeking the fraternities to justify their existence. Right now, after all of these incidents, and with the most recent case of Cris Mendez, how relevant are fraternities in universities?

Mike Tan: I think considering that frats seem to appeal – it seems that frats do help especially for people without the networks or connections. Some class differences; like, you can see Cris Mendez came from a middle income if not a low-income family. Frats do provide access--access to resources. I've heard of frat brods who have very low allowances but were able to survive partly because of the help of brods. And, we'd like to think the fraternities can amplify on that role. They provide living support for deserving brods. That's the relevance that I can see for the fraternities today. They will have to become more socially engaged--definitely show that they can do other things besides paddle and the rituals of passage.

Leo Magno: Yeah. Nabanggit mo [You mentioned], Mike, yung access to networks, no? To information and other people. And I read in your column once in the Inquirer also that an alternative which is cropping up right now is the Internet. So, you have e-groups and all. How would you compare such a phenomenon with real world groups?

Mike Tan: Yeah. The e-groups do help in terms of keeping people in touch, no? We have peyups.org. A faculty will rate students--we did that also--where they evaluated teachers, who’s easy to take, who really knows his or her stuff, no.

Leo Magno: Okay. And I’m sure you’re highly recommended on that ha, right?

Mike Tan: I haven’t for awhile.

Leo Magno: Okay.

Mike Tan: Mahalaga yan. [That’s important.] But I think there are many things that will have to be fulfilled through face-to-face interaction. So the organizations would still need to function that way.

Leo Magno: Okay. Let’s go back to the violence. Kapag pumapasok ka ng fraternity [When you join a fraternity], no, why do think it’s being perpetuated? I mean there were a lot of prominent people who denounced such acts, no? And Jovito Salonga even resigned from the Sigma Rho because of the Cris Mendez case. Is it more of the need to--parang babawi ka [to get back at] because the same thing was done to you before? Or is it really a rite of passage to prove your manhood? Or is it something which really bonds them together? Is it something na after a night or two weeks or one week or three days of gulpi de gulat, will that really bond people?

Mike Tan: Psychologically, yes, that would be good. The psychologist can tell you that it’s a matter of stripping you of your identity, we’re very strong in this idea of no pain, no gain. A lot of organizations have some form or another of ritual. And even people wanted to join them before they actually had to beg the masters.

Leo Magno: Okay.

Mike Tan: A lot of the physical, too. And in the end it’s really to make yourself, to prove that you are worthy of it. I think the 21st century, with our emphasis on the integrity of humans. It becomes unacceptable, even for psychological humiliation.

Leo Magno: Uh-huh. Okay. Oh, let’s imagine this scenario where I’m crippled, Mike. And I have a lot to offer -- my service, my talent, my intelligence but I cannot physically. I can’t physically handle it. Is there no way for me to join the fraternity?

Mike Tan: That’s what I would like to ask the fraternity brods, you know. I think they’ve been loosening, you may have talked with someone that I don’t know how much we emphasize physical prowess and ability. I’ve heard it even eased up on sexual orientation. In fact, even gay men can enter frats now.

Leo Magno: Uh-huh.

Mike Tan: And that’s really something else, you know.

Leo Magno: And I’ve also heard that some of them because of the anti-hazing law before and the recent cases are sort of toning down also the physical side.

Mike Tan: They have to, yeah. But the question is up to what degree can we tone that down? I mean, some people feel it’s totally unacceptable, you know even mild paddling. Because it’s a person’s body and integrity.

Leo Magno: Yeah. But for some – let’s go back doon sa nabanggit mo kanina [what you mentioned earlier] about bonding psychologically, after going through intense moments, physical pain and torture and all. Some people, you know, nagbo-bond rin talaga yan eh [they really bond]. But can this happen, say overnight or over a few days?

Mike Tan: I think the physical aspect is meant in fact to hasten that - the bonding, that you’ve gone through it therefore you are now part of the brotherhood. Yun nga ang daming tanong [There have been lots of questions] whether that is acceptable or not. To hasten this bonding process. Aren’t there other ways of bringing that bonding together.

Leo Magno: Could you suggest some of these ways like...

Mike Tan: I think it’s probably - that brods will probably think of something, working together in social projects. But I would suspect it would go much, much more slowly, the bonding nga.

Leo Magno: Okay. Mike, you’re privy to a lot of the discussions ongoing in UP regarding fraternities? Where does UP stand right now as far as fraternities are concerned, especially after the Administrative Order from President Roman?

Mike Tan: The processes are really consultative right now. And there are no committees yet that have been formally – they’re not formally constituted yet. So, I don’t want to pre-empt this. But what I can say is that there is a lot of discussion. You have people who want it abolished totally. People will say, hey, hey, we have to wait a minute here. So, I would think they’re going to be – people are going to investigate on the frats a bit more. We do have studies from the past, like from the Sociology Department on frat behavior and operations. So we’re not starting from scratch but I think it’s more - it would take a bit more time to get this done and I think the administration is going to have to come up with some preemptive measures to tide us over until we can get this settled.

Leo Magno: Okay. Let’s summarize it a bit, Mike. What do you think are the pros and cons of fraternities? You mentioned financial help and all. The networks. Let’s start with the pros, why -- if I’m a freshman or a sophomore looking to join a fraternity -- why should I?

Mike Tan: Yeah. It’s the -- I don’t know if bonding is legitimate -- but I think networking is the most important especially for access to people and to resources. That would be the main pro factor.

Leo Magno: But is this really what the students think of when joining a fraternity or is it the cool factor, as whimsical as that?

Mike Tan: I wonder how cool -- how much of the cool factor there is right now. That would be another thing to look at. I think that the frats’ status has dropped through the years.

Leo Magno: Really?

Mike Tan: Class wise as well di masyado [not so much any longer], I think it’s more a contributing thing. Unless the brods are still being pushed by their fathers.

Leo Magno: Uh-huh. Okay, so those were just some of the pros. Negative side.

Mike Tan: Negative side is the risk of being - going through hazing. I wonder too sometimes if frats – how much frats allow in terms of --because I’m such an individualist, I encourage my students to be critical thinkers. I don’t know if the frats tend towards herd mentalities.

Leo Magno: Okay. Point blank, Mike. Are you for the abolition of fraternities? Why? Why not?

Mike Tan: No. I’m too much of the civil libertarian there, na. Unless the frats--unless someone can prove to me frats are inherently violent. I would not favor outright abolition.

Leo Magno: So it hasn’t been proven that fraternities are inherently violent?

Mike Tan: Organizations are what the members make them to be.

Leo Magno: Okay. But how do we balance it, like you said, throughout the years, fraternities have tried to lessen violence related to their rituals, no? But we still have cases like Cris Mendez and just recently there was Marlon Villanueva. How do you balance that?

Mike Tan: That’s why we will have to rethink the whole--I think we have to go into gender, culture, what we think of --what is it to be male. Because let’s face it, the outside world there, even in high schools, there are hazing rituals going on. And there are education--Greek letter fraternities as well.

Leo Magno: Uh-huh. What can the families of the victims of fraternity-related violence -- whether or not they’re part of the fraternities themselves like Nino Calinao wasn’t part of the fraternity involved. What can they do? They send their kids to college hoping that they graduate and then this is what happens to them, in UP, of all places.

Mike Tan: I think we need to hear more from them. It’s sad but, like Howie Severino’s had an excellent show just last night. And the mother of Icasiano -- she was very good there. And I think that’s very important to show docu’s like that too -- where these mothers remind people. Kayo rin may magulang [You, too, have parents] and she was telling the other frat people, if you really respect life, respect your mothers, you will respect your fraternity brods. That’s a very basic message that we have to get out here.

Leo Magno: Okay, Mike, thank you very much. We appreciate all of your insights. Thank you very much.

Mike Tan: Thank you.

Operator: Thank you for listening to Newsmaker.

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